Is p-bol going to be good?

[Rodzilla]

Originally Posted by JornT

In order for C-bol to be just as good buy $ for $, it has to result in 13,33333 times as much gains as creatine monohydrate with one serving a day.....lol do you really think that?

Agree with everything you said except this.

you can set a ratio for price to gains but many will pay a higher premium for increased results.

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by Rodzilla

Agree with everything you said except this.

you can set a ratio for price to gains but many will pay a higher premium for increased results.

That is his point, that we should use citrulline instead of arginine nitrate to prevent nitrate tolerance because even though it's more expensive, it will yield better results.

I, however, disagree because we have seen no evidence that suggests citrulline will reduce nitrate tolerance (even though it would be nice if it could) and at that, the difference would be negligible even if Jorn's theory was correct. We could settle this via in-house testing but I am not aware of any way to test nitrate tolerance in-house.

Bottom line is that I don't know why he is so mad that there is arginine nitrate in there instead of citrulline :/ The folic acid I can understand but we have a novel, innovative concept here.

[DaCookie]

You cant make everyone happy.

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by DaCookie

You cant make everyone happy.

That is definitely true.

[bigla2004]

Originally Posted by DaCookie

You cant make everyone happy.

That becomes clearer and clearer every day

[JornT]

Originally Posted by ThermoRep

Bottom line is that I don't know why he is so mad that there is arginine nitrate in there instead of citrulline

I'm not mad at all.

I think I said in my first post, that P-bol is going to blast to competition out of the water. But I personally am DISSAPOINTED with it, because imo it is just another C-bol pretty much (nitrates + nitritre tolerance prevention + performance enhancers)

When C-bol came out, I was very impressed by its innovation. But P-bol....not at all That doesn't mean I think it is a bad product or that I'm going to hate on it on bb.com or something.

Hopefully, the clear-bol is going to be insane (is clear boll just a P-bol add on, or will it be a solo product as well?)

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by JornT

I'm not mad at all.

I think I said in my first post, that P-bol is going to blast to competition out of the water. But I personally am DISSAPOINTED with it, because imo it is just another C-bol pretty much (nitrates + nitritre tolerance prevention + performance enhancers)

When C-bol came out, I was very impressed by its innovation. But P-bol....not at all That doesn't mean I think it is a bad product or that I'm going to hate on it on bb.com or something.

Hopefully, the clear-bol is going to be insane (is clear boll just a P-bol add on, or will it be a solo product as well?)

I gave a poor choice of words. I know your not "mad"...It should certainly be interesting to see how P-BOL compares to C-BOL when it comes to actual results though. I personally think the glycerol, COP, and palatinose (just ran into a study showing nitrates will increase carb uptake or something to that extent) will make the world of difference in terms of immediate noticable results.

I am excited. Clear-BOL on the other hand, I have no idea what this formula is even gonna look like. I would like to see some innovation here but I don't know how feasible that is at this point in time.

[Rodzilla]

my guess for clearbol is a potent stimulant/nootropic blend. Most likely ingredients that have been seen before, but in much better dosing parameters.

[bigla2004]

Originally Posted by Rodzilla

my guess for clearbol is a potent stimulant/nootropic blend. Most likely ingredients that have been seen before, but in much better dosing parameters.

I would agree. Probably far closer to ideal

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by Rodzilla

my guess for clearbol is a potent stimulant/nootropic blend. Most likely ingredients that have been seen before, but in much better dosing parameters.

I think so too.

[bigla2004]

Tough to reinvent the wheel on nootropics without prescription drugs. Optimizing it though is something I believe we will / can do.

[Rodzilla]

Originally Posted by bigla2004

Tough to reinvent the wheel on nootropics without prescription drugs. Optimizing it though is something I believe we will / can do.

definitely. Refining what is already out there should still make for a pretty innovative formula though. When you get specific amounts of nootropics correct, it can be great. Too much and you can feel pretty shitty..I remember some reports from the earliest version of ultima where it was simply too much for some people.

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by Rodzilla

definitely. Refining what is already out there should still make for a pretty innovative formula though. When you get specific amounts of nootropics correct, it can be great. Too much and you can feel pretty shitty..I remember some reports from the earliest version of ultima where it was simply too much for some people.

I took one scoop of ultima v2 preworkout and crashed halfway through lifting and slept 14 hours.

[Rodzilla]

Originally Posted by ThermoRep

I took one scoop of ultima v2 preworkout and crashed halfway through lifting and slept 14 hours.

lol, funny now. I bet you were pissed at the time.

I had to do the half before half during trick when it first came out..or else I would become drained as well.

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by Rodzilla

lol, funny now. I bet you were pissed at the time.

I had to do the half before half during trick when it first came out..or else I would become drained as well.

Ehh, I just traded them off. Thankfully there was tons of hype. I have v3 now and it seems to be good. I sweat a ton when using it and have motivation to lift so that's good. I can't tell if I like it more than MAN clout though.

[JornT]

I dislike several things from ultima, like the 5MTF dose , but from the nootropic mix I dislike the DMEA. I know DR_P does as well, so that is not likely in clear boll.

Is clear-bol the same as the B-bol DR_P would formulate?

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by JornT

I dislike several things from ultima, like the 5MTF dose , but from the nootropic mix I dislike the DMEA. I know DR_P does as well, so that is not likely in clear boll.

Is clear-bol the same as the B-bol DR_P would formulate?

I actually noticed to 5MTF dose when we were talking about folic acid. It's kind of hidden in there; not on the part of the label with other minerals.

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by JornT

Is clear-bol the same as the B-bol DR_P would formulate?

Definitely not. B-Bol is more of a study aid. IF we were going to use any choline sources then they would be in B-BOL

[bigla2004]

Originally Posted by ThermoRep

Definitely not. B-Bol is more of a study aid. IF we were going to use any choline sources then they would be in B-BOL

Very nice. I didn't know these two were separate that's awesome

[Dr.P]

Originally Posted by JornT

I dislike several things from ultima, like the 5MTF dose , but from the nootropic mix I dislike the DMEA. I know DR_P does as well, so that is not likely in clear boll.

Is clear-bol the same as the B-bol DR_P would formulate?

entirely different. clear-bol is aimed at providing maximum mind-muscle connection along with a strong "hello I am awake" type of feeling.

B-BOL, however, is all about finetuning. It will consist of good doses of some well-known and effective nootropic substances, acting synergistically. in addition it will have a substance that has not been seen in the OTC / pharma market at all, something entirely new and extremely promising, as it activates specific learning pathways at the post-receptor level, thus neither contributing to "noise" in the brain nor affecting receptor or neurotransmitter status. It is a gorgous substance and B-BOL will have an effective amount of it, despite of its horrendous price.

And there is another good thing about B-BOL: It is designed to be perfectly stackable with different other things, depending on the preferences and the current state of your mind, vigilance etc.

FInally, B-BOL will have an extremely fair pricing. You can be sure that you won't find any remotely comparable product at that price.

Personally, I can't wait for it because I know that I will use it on a regular basis.

P.S.: I fully agree with you, DMAE has no place in a serious nootropic product. Same applies to high stim levels.

[gbros]

Why include Arginine when its been shown to lower growth hormone peak?
http://www.ergo-log.com/argininetraining.html

Also don't like the resveratrol being from red wine as im a muslim and not allowed alcohol extracts from wine, etc. I was hoping P-Bol would not have these two in the least

[Dr.P]

Originally Posted by gbros

Why include Arginine when its been shown to lower growth hormone peak?
http://www.ergo-log.com/argininetraining.html

Also don't like the resveratrol being from red wine as im a muslim and not allowed alcohol extracts from wine, etc. I was hoping P-Bol would not have these two in the least

TO my knowledge, alcohol evaporates and only the dry extracted substances are left. In sum, you get zero alcohol.

[ThermoRep]

Originally Posted by gbros

Why include Arginine when its been shown to lower growth hormone peak?
http://www.ergo-log.com/argininetraining.html

The GH peak really wont matter. Insulin decreases GH and it is probably arginine's insulinogenic properties that do this. A whole host of other things should inhibit GH release such as carbs, other amino acids, etc. It's a moot issue.

[Bane]

There is zero data on Citrulline preventing Nitrate Tolerance, although I personally like high dose Citrulline (4-8 grams) we already have more than enough NO amplification in P-Bol and the cost of Citrulline compared to the data we have on it is not worth it at the moment.
Glycerol increasing body weight? I think ppl you must be confusing it with the form used currently, GMS, which is bonded with the fat stearic acid. The caloric value of Glycerol is neglible and as for causing long term water retention-after the initial increase in plasma volume it acts as a very mild diuretic as the body removes the excess water-IF there is excess water which in hot training environments usually there isn't. The main reason it is there is to counter the lowering of Blood Pressure actual vasodilation causes which in some users causes headaches and diziness. Being hypotensive myself I have been using it for this reason for more than 6 years.
A lot of nutrious things promote cancer growth to those that already have cancer since cancer cells well use the same things for food as the rest of the body's cells. Out of the top of my mind, protein, Orotic Acid, Omega 6 fatty acids, caloric surplus diets e.t.c. If you are unlucky enough to have cancer you are going to do chemo and associated non-nutrious diet instead of worrying about bodybuilding supplements. However I was of the impression that folate is quite a good thing to supplement with if you worry about cancer:
http://www.nutramed.com/nutrients/folate_cancer.htm
http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/Trea...d?sitearea=eto
http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Nutrit...sFolicAcid.htm
Again if you have already cancer or a precancerous condition you are better off stopping all supplements and visiting an oncologist.
Resveratrol's effect on AR is dose dependent. As shown by two different studies at low concentrations it actually ACTIVATES AR. Plus it helps prevent nitrate tolerance, enhances NO effectiveness and has lots of cool effects on muscle and energy expenditure-wait for the write-up for more
As for P-Bol competing with C-bol. One is a preworkout pump product that you can use only on training days, the other is an all day around creatine-NO-antioxidant-performance enhancer. The only shared ingredients are folic acid and Vitamin C and they are shared because they are terrifically effective at what they do and are also very cost effective. If we though P-Bol would make C-Bol obsolete we would have just stopped producing C-Bol.
Make sure to apply for testers all you doubters

[Bane]

Originally Posted by Dr.P

TO my knowledge, alcohol evaporates and only the dry extracted substances are left. In sum, you get zero alcohol.

Actually the Resveratrol 99% of the companies use comes from Giant Knotweed and not grapes.